Emily ([info]torrilin) wrote,
@ 2007-10-11 19:58:00
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BMI and body image
Illustrated BMI Categories

It ain't perfect. But boy is it eye opening.

As I went through the images, I noticed a couple patterns. The BMI categories work fairly well on women in the 5' to 5'6" range. Outside that height range, the results seem to skew around wildly.

Women with breasts larger than a B cup *will* have at least an overweight BMI, no matter what their height. Women with a narrow waist and full hips are more likely to have an overweight BMI, no matter what their height. Women with visible collarbones will generally get classed as "normal". Women with starkly visible collarbones (ie, does not appear actively anorexic on camera) will get classed as "underweight".

So, we can see some obvious problems.

1. The bell curve of bras purchased centers around a B cup. Most bra fitting advice indicates that the more correct average size is C, possibly D.

2. Full hips tend to be associated with a larger pelvis. A larger pelvis tends to be associated with a larger birth canal. A larger birth canal is associated with easier childbirth. Biologically, full hips are a good thing.

3. Starkly visible collarbones are an indicator of anorexia (nervosa and otherwise). Rib count is also useful in a medical exam. 2-3 visible ribs are ok. Entire ribcage in relief is not usually ok, speaking as one who has been there. Details of spinal structure, pelvic structure or joint structure may also indicate anorexia. Biologically, a human with visible skeletal structure is at risk. We can run a very long time that way, but it is not the default state when there is an abundance of food.

So, BMI says any breast size over a B is unhealthy. If this is correct, it seems unlikely that women would have an average cup size in the C to D territory. It also seems unlikely that women who gain weight in their breasts would have consistently better health outcomes. Yet both of these are true... BMI says full hips are bad. This has serious structural implications for childbirth. If full hips really *were* bad, the pelvic structures that let a narrow hipped woman give birth easily would be common. There are structural defects that won't kill you (say, the malformed bone in my feet). A pelvic structural defect in a woman is often lethal (not just for her but for her genetic line). Until caesarean section was invented, it was lethal for her and her genetic line. BMI does not ring warning bells about disease. It treats visible bone structure as the normal state for an adult female, and very visible bone structure as a minor health problem.

What this tells me is that BMI is *not* an index. It's that same damn ectomorph height and weight chart, repackaged with a new name. You can generate the standard height and weight chart for adult women from some simple baselines.

60" of height = 100 lbs.
(num_inches_over_60 * 5) + 100 = ideal_weight

Go look at some of those images again. Notice anything about the heights and weights? Yeah. That. You don't get a "normal" BMI without matching the formula. (I am not male, so I do not have the male version of the equation memorized)

It doesn't matter how often doctors repeat that damn formula. It is biologically incorrect, since it encourages a body type that is not well suited to reproductive success. Doesn't matter if we *want* to reproduce or not, a body type that's potentially lethal should not be the baseline. Worse, it conceals lethal disease. Anorexia nervosa kills.

Another pattern that's hard to see in the images is also nasty. It's easiest to see the effects in the male images, tho with practice you can see it in some of the female ones as well. A muscular person, no matter what their gender, will have at least an overweight BMI. You do not get muscles without regular exercise. Regular exercise is necessary for good health. People who get regular exercise have better medical outcomes. Impact exercise is necessary to maintain bones. Aerobic exercise is necessary for the cardiovascular system. Ideally, people would do many sorts of exercise regularly, and thus would have good muscle structure, strong bones and a well developed cardiovascular system. Because BMI penalizes most people for having muscle mass, it discourages healthy behavior.

So. The formula has serious biological problems, and serious long term health implications. Why are we using it again?



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[info]mephistakitten
2007-10-12 04:09 am UTC (link)
Because that's what someone somewhere decided. People who use BMI as a measure say that it approximates %body fat without having to do a lot of testing. It's really just a fancy weight/height ratio and it's not always right. Bodybuilders aren't obese.

If I decided to stop losing weight now, I would look normal-to heavy (I think) but I'm still "overweight" by the BMI.

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[info]torrilin
2007-10-12 11:16 am UTC (link)
Yeah, that's kind of what I thought. I'm 5'6", and "should" be 130lbs by BMI (and the old style charts). I have nice skinny bones, so I tend to weigh between 125 and 135lbs when I'm at a "healthy" weight.

I'm not *happy* being 160lbs, because I'm vain and it makes it harder to find clothes that fit nicely (not that it was easy when I was tiny either...). I also know the extra weight increases my diabetes risk dramatically, because Mom's diabetic and her mom was diabetic. Both of them had gestational diabetes before tipping over into "real" type 2 also. Not one doctor has mentioned diabetes to me as a reason to lose weight. I'll get a regular lecture as long as I'm over 130 lbs, but diabetes doesn't come up.

In terms of function, my body's in pretty good shape. I can do 20 mile bike rides (and I really should map myself a route that will push my distance some). I can do all my normal running around by bike and on foot. My hip and malformed foot bones do not give me more trouble than at 130 lbs. Go under 120 lbs? No doctor would bat an eyelash. At 115lbs, I barely had energy to function. No one (except me and Mom) worried. After all, thin is good, right?

The guidelines don't result in improved medical care. If I'd really been an anorexia nervosa case, instead of a drug induced one, I would not have gotten treatment. If I'm really pre-diabetic (which is quite possible given the family medical history), no doctor has thought to test for it. Odds are fairly good on the pre-diabetic given the way I've been keeling over if I don't eat, but I can't really test myself for it.

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[info]mephistakitten
2007-10-12 03:55 pm UTC (link)
I'm 5'7 and weigh 185ish now (I've lost about 100 pounds so far). I have very broad shoulders and big bones. My wrists are skin and bones and they're 6.5 inches, not going to get much smaller than that. I'm "bigger" than my boyfriend (He's 5'6" and 150 pounds, looks average weight) so really those womens weight charts aren't right for me.

I'm athletic, I run and cycle and lift, my thighs are solid muscle these days. My goal is to weigh 160, which given my body type and composition is a good weight for me. I was looking at the BMI pictures site, and there's a chick in a wetsuit by the water who looks just like what I want to look like when I'm done. (I even put on my diving skin to check out how I looked, and I think that the number will correspond with the look I want.)

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[info]torrilin
2007-10-12 07:01 pm UTC (link)
Sounds like you've got a build a lot more like my sister :).

I really liked the BMI pictures, because they drove home for me that yes, I am fatter than is healthy for me. But it wouldn't be a problem if diabetes weren't involved.

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[info]adsartha
2007-10-12 05:32 am UTC (link)
I hear I can't have my hips anymore. But they were useful for keeping books on! And things out of the way!

Also, I've probably been assuming I was an A cup mistakenly for years. Sigh. Stupid not liking shopping for bras, because ohgod so much money.

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[info]torrilin
2007-10-12 11:21 am UTC (link)
Well... Bra shopping is not much fun. I find it is more fun if the bras fit and are pretty tho. At least then I have a useful end result. As long as you're not a 34B and not over a DD, I can teach you some useful tricks for finding good quality bras for cheap.

You will have to live with me snarking design tho. And um... I can snark clothing design for a Very Long Time...

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[info]adsartha
2007-10-12 07:45 pm UTC (link)
Oooh. Last measurement I was a 38C. This may have changed, and will probably be different with different manufacturers, the fuckers.

This differs from your usual snarking of things only in that I may join in.

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[info]torrilin
2007-10-12 08:19 pm UTC (link)
Measuring can be helpful. However, the way a bra company tells you to measure and the way you actually should measure bear very little resemblance to each other. Most bras are made by just a couple manufacturers. If you fit Brand A's house fit model, you will also fit brand B, C, D, E, F, G and possibly Z. There will be some sloshing of sizes due to cut, but mostly "your" size will be your size for that manufacturer. Other manufacturers will be different, but if your body is anything like mine, stuff from other manufacturers just won't work because their fit model is so off.

And well, joining in is welcome. Just be prepared, because if I'm doing Serious Bra Shopping, I will really and truly want to snark every single bra they have. After all, there might be one that isn't snark worthy hiding in a corner! And then I will go find more bras to snark.

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[info]wrenb
2007-10-12 05:25 pm UTC (link)
That's why when I do serious bra shopping I buy one or two pricey ones. I used to go to a shop on Stoughton Rd that had like 2 ordinary bras and everything else was fetishy. The saleswomen there were awesome and gave me the very best bra fittings I've ever had. Once I knew my size I could hit Kohls and Target. I've had some pretty decent bras off the Target clearance racks -- under $10 for a D!

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[info]torrilin
2007-10-12 08:12 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I love clearance racks. Also the VS end of season sales. And outlet stores...

Fetishy shops are great :)

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[info]herefox
2007-10-12 03:47 pm UTC (link)
It's kind of funny, I was just talking about this Wed. night with another friend. Though I was tying it in with why I find it so difficult to find pants as well. Even above the BMI I supposedly be I only have a 32 inch waist...it's kind of a crapshoot to find anything that size or lower (I often wonder how the really tall, really skinny guys manage. I have a bad enough time at average height. What does someone with my waist size that's 6'2 manage?)

My roommate recently noted that he'd like to be back down to 135 pounds. Aside from blinking at him and nicely not saying he was insane I shrugged and said that while I'd like to lose about ten pounds (It's REALLY not fair that I'm barely overweight and I have a double chin...damn genetics) I'd never want to be down to 150 or below because at that point it would mean that I had lost muscle as well as fat.

Thankfully my doctor doesn't really seem the type to just look at the numbers, she didn't mention weight loss at all until I did. Though I think she was a bit worried about weight + blood pressure since mine tends to run borderline high. After I told her I walk several miles a week she backed off on that too.

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[info]torrilin
2007-10-12 08:21 pm UTC (link)
Yeah. I wish there were more images of guys in the photo set. I am betting BMI works as badly for men as it does for women... but I don't really *know* how a guy's body works the way you do.

I have no idea how really tall skinny guys manage either. [info]adsartha probably knows, since her boyfriend fits in that group.

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[info]herefox
2007-10-12 08:45 pm UTC (link)
I think BMI works relatively well for a male who's not an athelete or one that never gets any exercise at all...I suspect males were originally what the scale was developed for. That being said, natural differences in base waist size can make a big difference even for men (Your wide pelvis thing) Someone with my height and build is going to be fat at a lower BMI than someone with, say, Badger's basic build of the same height just because even at the same height there's more of him than me.

There used to be a commercial on for one of the men's magazines that talked about the secrets to having a 32 inch waist and every time it came on I snorted and said something to the effect of 'eat a pizza every day and never move' because for me 32 is definitely on the road to far too much fat. Men carry almost all their body fat in their stomach area as a general rule so it's easier to just look at a guy than look at some arbitrary chart.

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[info]vaku
2007-10-12 09:14 pm UTC (link)
On males...

I grew up on BMI for the longest time because that's the only one mom ever trusted. Still does.

I've since outgrown BMI. Body fat is the important measurement. The only reason why it's not done more often is because the measurement is tedious. For a while you'll have to skinny dip into a water scale. Basically right now I'm 5'10" and about 25 lb overweight according to the BMI, but the reason I know I'm overweight is... the stomach, as herefox said. It's quite telling :P

But yeah, I know a guy who's my height and a little heavier, but muscular. I have significant muscle but also significant fat. Do I think he's overweight? Hell no. Fat is also less dense than muscle so it's possible to look normal and yet the scale screams 'overweight, overweight!' when programmed to look for BMI.

Don't have much experience with the ladies, though, so it's entertaining to read your snark on it. Really the reason BMI still being used is because it's so damned easy to measure.

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[info]torrilin
2007-10-12 10:23 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, but easy to measure (as we've both ranted before) does not always mean it's a good measure :D

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[info]torrilin
2007-10-12 10:23 pm UTC (link)
Neat. Dad always registers as "overweight", even when he's at his skinniest (no fat on his belly). His default healthy state is 6', 180 lbs. Takes something like 20 miles of running a week to maintain it.

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[info]herefox
2007-10-12 10:29 pm UTC (link)
Hrm...that's just at the high range of normal. Which honestly is ridiculous, someone who's 6'0" is 3 inches taller than I am and to register as overweight for being 10 pounds higher than my highest weight IS ridiculous, so you're definitely right..it's more broken than I would have thought!

I'm wondering if it does better on the average weight/heights than the extremes?

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[info]torrilin
2007-10-13 11:41 am UTC (link)
The visual evidence is it seems to do a bit better.

But yeesh. Average height for a woman in my age cohort is 5'6". My height. That's something like 6 inches gain in average height over the last 100 years. Men have also gotten taller, tho I don't think the average height for men in my age cohort is 6'1". I'd guess more 5'10" or 5'11". I suspect a lot of the problem is that no one has gone out and *measured* people since about 1942.

(oh and completely off topic, I just got myself a new fitness goal. whee!)

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